Thursday, May 24, 2012

Vengeance, Firetail, & Punisher vs Firetail, Thrasher, Kitsune

Sitting in the plex in Hrober, I was waiting for it to respawn. With the local population glitches, I wasnt watching local very well. Was chatting in the different channels I have available, actually. Well, a Punisher landed inside the plex. I approached with the MWD active and caught point and web. OHd the launchers and began spewing my death upon him. As he entered structure, I aligned to the sun as I saw a Kitsune and Firetail both on dscan now. As the punisher exploded I hesitated, I wanted this pod. I was too slow though and the pod got away. Immediately realigning to the sun, I entered warp. Just at the last second as I left grid, I saw the Kitsune and Firetail both land inside. Guess I got out just in time.

Landing at the sun, I was only a few m from the pod. And damned be all the gods, I missed his pod again. Oh well. I went back to the plex for a bit and didnt get much in the way of loot. Corp chat relayed the pod was in Heild, followed by the Firetail and Kitsune. Well, fuck it, I say to myself, lets go kill them. They obviously want to fight. So I toss up an advert for my fleet and have people join up. Both Alaric and Staxed joined up, I gave directions to Staxed to try and get point, having them engage and we would join in when called. Well, after a bit of cat and mouse, we finally got to engage at the sun in Heild.

I called the Firetail primary, and as he was relieved of his vessel, the Kitsune and thrasher showed up on the overview. I knew the Kitsune was a huge concern and I immediately called it primary, but then quickly saw my fuck up and re-called the primary to the thrasher. The Kitsune was 50km out, and I didnt think my crew would reach them in time before either of them were exploded, both the firetail and the hero tackling punisher. It was a costly mistake on my part as the destroyer class Thrasher made quick work of both my corpmates in their frigates. With both of them out of the field, I was the only one left. The only one left to take the full on fury of the ECM'ing Kitsune 50km away. I couldnt even catch him due to the webs on me and the scram preventing MWD.

This pissed me off greatly. It took these guys a terriblely long time to kill my ship. I couldnt NOS anyone due to not being able to target shit, so my capacitor took a shit on me eventually. Once that happened, they took at least a minute and half to kill my armor, then my ship exploded quickly after that point.

I was aligned out for a long time, cussing up a storm in local due to the dishonorable ECM usage. Alaric tried to give a "gf", but I quickly put a stop to that bullshit. When a small gang of 3 fights another small gang of 3, and ECM is involved, its not a good fight, at all. Two of three of my team was cockblocked from even doing anything, by a ship 50km out. Bad call on my part to not go after him, but I doubt there was much we could have done tbh.

You want to kill me cuz of my shinies, go ahead, I dont mind that reason. But to come to my home with ECM and think youre skilled and actually got me? Go fuck yourself. Come back with your three non-ECM ships and my crew will kick your face in. Bring your Hawk. Bring your shitty Rifter. And even bring your favorite Firetail. We'll bring us and you will be lucky if you get out with your pods because we'll be aiming to make you pod goo.


  1. LOL! So because you use bling (which you probably acquired through plex) to obtain an advantage over people who do not use or have access to such bling, that makes you skilled. But when someone comes along and uses something that counters your bling, well they are not skilled because they did not sucumb to your bling...

    You sir, have won eve.

    1. Oh and I forgot to add - you knowingly chased the kitsun with full knowledge of what it was and still you complain about ecm?

    2. Urgh, I had a nice essay written out then but Google ate my reply.

      -> Korvus doesn't use PLEX, he lives off lucky breaks on SOMER Blink.
      -> Kitsune ECM is just as annoying as Falcon ECM, and the amount of rage the Falcon causes is immense. Some parallels here I think
      -> Sitting there unable to defend yourself while your ship gets torn to shreds is one of the worst feelings in the game, so I can understand why Korvus was mad.

      -> Admittedly however, it WAS a strange decision to engage when you knew they had a Kitsune ;)

    3. I was very angry at my loss, yes, like I am with all my losses. This one I posted before my normal Friday post because it would have just pissed me off again when I wrote it up. I also do not buy plex to fund my bling. I play Somer Blink as well as have market orders up with a sprinkle of PI across 6 characters. So, no, sir, I dont need PLEX to fund my bling.

      As Ive mentioned before in prior blogs, I dont fit my ship for bling or shinyness. I fit my ship to accomplish a specific task, with my Vengeance, that is a high resist profile across the board. It just so happens the modules I need to equip to accomplish this goal are shiny things because of the lowered CPU fitting costs which I need to make my fit work. I dont need the bling, so give me t2 modules with the same cpu fitting cost and Id use those instead. Except the repper; I like me some A-types.

      As far as countering my fit with ecm and engaging them knowing the kitsune was there: I hate ECM. I used to fit ecm to my ships without any bonus to them, like a rifter or vengeance with an ecm mod instead of a prop mod for example. People just stopped engaging me. So I stopped. As for not engaging know the ECM Ship was there, I didnt really care bout it. I wanted a fight.

      The mistake came in when I originally called it primary and then immediately turned my team around on the thrasher instead. Had I stayed with the Kitsune as primary, one of two things would have happened: They would have chased it off field, and we would have won the battle, OR they would have died in the process of trying to catch it. Personally, I think had we stayed with Kitsune as Primary, we would have won the field.

      But yes. Kitsune = Falcon. Falcon Rage = Alot. Same exact ship in a different size. Nothing else different about it. Fuck ECM

    4. Also, dont mistake me being pissed off as being a sore loser or buying wins. I wanted a fight, pure and simple and I lost to dishonorable tactics. I was hoping though that since the people we were engaging saw 3 of us, they would also want to bring a good fight without the ecm. Apparently not.

    5. Korvus says he lives off somer - but who knows? I sincerely that he is as lucky as he claims.

      Regardless, eve is a game of rock paper scissor - if you know ship type and fit - you can pretty much guess what is going to happen during the fight. ECM is no different. While it may feel different in the sense that you are sitting there and your ship is not responsive, the fight was decided when you committed to the engagement. If you want to fight ecm boats bring eccm or more ships -- otherwise leave them alone.

      Korvus uses faction mods to give him an advantage over folk who dont use such mods -- which is ok - but then he goes around crowing that he is skilled - which is simply silly - he is just winning with isk. The person using ecm is merely taking away Korvus advantage which is why Korvus is crying so much.

    6. Im not going to argue the point of where my ISK comes from anymore. Believe or not, done and over with.

      You are correct that the fight was decided when 2/3 of my crew was ecm'd. They (the opponents) were looking for a fight as well, and I hastily jumped into the ring with the ECM present. I was pretty content sitting in my plex tbh.

      Heres the point that youre not getting. I dont fit faction or deadspace shit to get an advantage, the exception being the atype repper that I really do shell out for due to the performance increase it gives. I fit faction stuff because of the lower cpu requirements that allow me to fit my ship for a specific purpose, in the case of my vengeance, high resist profile. I cannot accomplish a similar profile with modules only and I even need to use an EM rig to give me the resist levels I am happy with.

      Again, I do not fit faction to buy wins. I fit faction because t2 requires too much cpu for me to fit my ship to perform how I want it to, ie, high resists. See most Vengeances with a plate, I hate plates, so I dont fit them.

    7. You cant really believe what your saying....
      Why do you want the high resist profile? Its not because it looks good, or its got a sexy feel -- its solely because you get an advantage in pvp that you could not have unless you fit that bling.

      I have a challenge for you - hang up the T2 ships and the faction mods. For the next few months only fly t1 ships with t1 mods. If at that point you can come back here and can honestly say that you beat the odds - that you have killed more ships then you lost - that you have killed ships that on paper you should not have been able to kill either because you were out numbered or out shipped - then we can safely agree that you can call yourself skilled.

    8. Look bub, I told you why I want to fit for high resists. It takes advantage of the ships default bonuses. THe ONLY reason I fit faction stuff, excluding the repper as mentioned, is because it has lower cpu fitting requirements. I use both the genolution pair of implants as well as a 3% cpu implant to even make this fit work. I use a meta 4 dcu most of the time, not because of the lower resists than a t2, but because it has lower cpu fitting requirements.

      Lower cpu fitting reqs is the ONLY reason I use faction gear. If t2 mods had the same exact stats as they do now but less cpu req's, I would use them without hesitation. Why? Because I want a resist profile as high as possible. I want high resists because high resists means lower damage incoming. Lower damage incoming means I can rep more of that damage easier. If I can rep the incoming damage easier, I can more easily tank the incoming damage and maybe trade a tank rig for a dps rigging. I fit faction webs and scram for the extended range they provide me to COUNTER being kited. My fit is nothign that popped up over night. I took time losing several vengeances finding the weaknesses and strengths of my ship.

      This is how I fit my ships. For a specific purpose. Not for specific bling or to show off. I dont like losing, so I do splurge on atype reppers to give that extra boost. In that one and single case, you can say I pay to win. IN any other varient of the case you are making, you have failed sir.

      Good day.

  2. Korvus:

    I'm going over this fight in my head, and it actually sounds really fun and really pretty decent. However, whether you want to explicitly admit it or not, YOU are the reason the good fight became something horrible for you. You killed two Punishers and a Firetail and lost your veng with two other ships.

    You really should have said gf, because it was a gf. Even if the end was horrible for you, the rest of it was fantastic.

    1) You made a bad FC call. It happens to everyone. But it got all of you killed.

    2) You knowingly engaged with a Kitsune on the field. You knew there was a strong chance it would perma jam you, indeed maybe your whole fleet. This was the mistake that really made you whelp the fleet, but since you knowingly took this fight, I don't feel you have any reason to complain about how the fight turned out.

    3) ECM does take some skill. ECM has to stay at range, if possible, do the maths and weigh the probabilities to use the correct set of jammers, and try to survive on a paper tank. ECM is also very vulnerable to drones. You did not take this into account. Had you reshipped to frigates with drones, you and your fleet may well have won the fight.

    1. I agree with you 100%; I made plenty of mistakes and fuckered up with bad attitude at losing to the ECM. Lessons learned, ty for your opinions.

  3. So.... next time just self-destruct? :)

  4. ECM was fit on that Kitsune with a specific purpose - to reduce incoming DPS.

    Also an MWD Vengeance with a T2 web/scrambler can catch a kiter without much difficulty if the pilot is any good at manual piloting...

    Just admit that you need the bling to actually beat other AFs - most Vengeances are T2 (few have b-type abs, c-type reps) and do fine.

    Just like how the Kitsune pilot (and his fleet) needs ECM in order to win fights they could win on skill alone.

    1. My fit is already tight on CPU, however, so I cannot use t2 versions of scram or web. I can drop to meta 4 versions, but I like the added range of a web which without OHing is more than an OHd t2 or m4 web. I like the range of the faction scram, because it too is more than an OHd t2 or m4 scram without being oh'd itself. Why do I like these?

      Because it makes getting those who kite me much easier. It also makes it so when people try to run, when they get out of their meta 4 scram range, they are still in mine, allowing me to mwd back into range.

      So yeah, other people t2 fit their ships, but not many fit them like I do, which is as much resists as possible while being actively repaired. Give me a fit that gives me the same resists and without using faction stuff, and Ill use it. The only reason I use faction is because it gives me the resists I am happy with; not my fault people get pissed when I spend the money on modules and they arent willing to risk such amounts in combat.

  5. "Id like to add that (after reading other peoples apps) I fucking love ECM. If it werent for being called dishonorable, Id use a Ladar ECM for every single fit on my Vengeance against the Wolf, Jag, and any Minmatar ship due to the sweet juicy tears produced when they cant target me and apply their massive dps."

    1. The joys of being a newb who rarely 1v1'd at the time, right? Ignorance is bliss, and I was pretty ignorant back then.